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	<title>Comments on: How Bad Are the Flyers Right Now?</title>
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	<link>http://isportacus.com/2009/12/08/how-bad-are-the-flyers-right-now/</link>
	<description>Philadelphia Sports - More Than Just Booing</description>
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		<title>By: BMT</title>
		<link>http://isportacus.com/2009/12/08/how-bad-are-the-flyers-right-now/comment-page-1/#comment-2269</link>
		<dc:creator>BMT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 20:47:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://isportacus.com/?p=4292#comment-2269</guid>
		<description>The Class of &#039;23 rink has one of the worst ice surfaces in the area but I guess that&#039;s no surprise since it&#039;s not used the way it should be. It&#039;s a building with character and the Ivy League has some top flight hockey. There&#039;s no reason a school with the size, resources and demographic of Penn shouldn&#039;t be fielding a D-1 hockey team. And with its location relatively central, it would make for an affordable, accessible local sports option. Getting the chance to see Harvard, Cornell, BC, Michigan, Notre Dame, BU, etc. play a top-notch division 1 sport would be pretty sweet and would add to the cache of quality local college sports. I&#039;m all for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Class of &#8217;23 rink has one of the worst ice surfaces in the area but I guess that&#8217;s no surprise since it&#8217;s not used the way it should be. It&#8217;s a building with character and the Ivy League has some top flight hockey. There&#8217;s no reason a school with the size, resources and demographic of Penn shouldn&#8217;t be fielding a D-1 hockey team. And with its location relatively central, it would make for an affordable, accessible local sports option. Getting the chance to see Harvard, Cornell, BC, Michigan, Notre Dame, BU, etc. play a top-notch division 1 sport would be pretty sweet and would add to the cache of quality local college sports. I&#8217;m all for it.</p>
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		<title>By: PalestraJon</title>
		<link>http://isportacus.com/2009/12/08/how-bad-are-the-flyers-right-now/comment-page-1/#comment-2268</link>
		<dc:creator>PalestraJon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 20:37:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://isportacus.com/?p=4292#comment-2268</guid>
		<description>As someone who went through college broadcasting Division 1 hockey (yes kids, the University of Pennsylvania played Div. 1 hockey in their then-shining new arena at 32nd and Walnut), I have long pestered the Penn administration to bring it back.  Sadly, this administration cares far more about building shopping malls on the Walnut Street Bridge than athletic success---look what they have done to our basketball program (0-6 with losses to some of the worst teams in the country).  Penn hockey could be big here---especially with the Phantoms gone and no other reasonably priced hockey option existing.  But no, they will knock the rink down and forever ensure we cannot see Division 1 hockey except on ESPN-U.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As someone who went through college broadcasting Division 1 hockey (yes kids, the University of Pennsylvania played Div. 1 hockey in their then-shining new arena at 32nd and Walnut), I have long pestered the Penn administration to bring it back.  Sadly, this administration cares far more about building shopping malls on the Walnut Street Bridge than athletic success&#8212;look what they have done to our basketball program (0-6 with losses to some of the worst teams in the country).  Penn hockey could be big here&#8212;especially with the Phantoms gone and no other reasonably priced hockey option existing.  But no, they will knock the rink down and forever ensure we cannot see Division 1 hockey except on ESPN-U.</p>
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		<title>By: BMT</title>
		<link>http://isportacus.com/2009/12/08/how-bad-are-the-flyers-right-now/comment-page-1/#comment-2267</link>
		<dc:creator>BMT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 20:29:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://isportacus.com/?p=4292#comment-2267</guid>
		<description>When I see the Flyers marketing campaigns, it makes me cringe too. &quot;Venegeance&quot; or any of the other violence-first cliches they invoke play on an uniquely Philly hockey tradition of barbarism-first hockey. One of the smart things hockey has done since 2004 is to help usher-in a more European style while still maintaining the physical part of the game. For evidence of the fact this is working in some places, just take a look at how Alexander Ovechkin and his skill-matched-with-grit style has transformed Washington into a Capitals-crazy town.

Growing up in Buffalo, there weren&#039;t hockey fans vs. non-hockey fans. Everyone played and everyone followed the Sabres. Being here it&#039;s a little different, in no small part due to the fact that there are 4 professional sports options to follow as opposed to simply the Sabres and the Bills. But I will say that in my local hockey travels, I have come to learn that the game in alive and well here. Now if fans could get on board with a Sabres or Capitals style of hockey, it would be even more exciting and more popular.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I see the Flyers marketing campaigns, it makes me cringe too. &#8220;Venegeance&#8221; or any of the other violence-first cliches they invoke play on an uniquely Philly hockey tradition of barbarism-first hockey. One of the smart things hockey has done since 2004 is to help usher-in a more European style while still maintaining the physical part of the game. For evidence of the fact this is working in some places, just take a look at how Alexander Ovechkin and his skill-matched-with-grit style has transformed Washington into a Capitals-crazy town.</p>
<p>Growing up in Buffalo, there weren&#8217;t hockey fans vs. non-hockey fans. Everyone played and everyone followed the Sabres. Being here it&#8217;s a little different, in no small part due to the fact that there are 4 professional sports options to follow as opposed to simply the Sabres and the Bills. But I will say that in my local hockey travels, I have come to learn that the game in alive and well here. Now if fans could get on board with a Sabres or Capitals style of hockey, it would be even more exciting and more popular.</p>
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		<title>By: PalestraJon</title>
		<link>http://isportacus.com/2009/12/08/how-bad-are-the-flyers-right-now/comment-page-1/#comment-2266</link>
		<dc:creator>PalestraJon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 20:19:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://isportacus.com/?p=4292#comment-2266</guid>
		<description>And let me just make it clear...I am talking solely about NHL hockey.  I love international hockey and the college game.  Totally different animal.  What is marketed to Flyers fans is &quot;Beatdown on Ice.&quot;  That is why it is niche.  I saw a Canada Cup game in Ottawa and it was awesome.  I just wish they could play that game here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And let me just make it clear&#8230;I am talking solely about NHL hockey.  I love international hockey and the college game.  Totally different animal.  What is marketed to Flyers fans is &#8220;Beatdown on Ice.&#8221;  That is why it is niche.  I saw a Canada Cup game in Ottawa and it was awesome.  I just wish they could play that game here.</p>
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		<title>By: BMT</title>
		<link>http://isportacus.com/2009/12/08/how-bad-are-the-flyers-right-now/comment-page-1/#comment-2265</link>
		<dc:creator>BMT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 19:11:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://isportacus.com/?p=4292#comment-2265</guid>
		<description>As I mentioned earlier, there&#039;s nobody who would disagree with the idea that football and baseball outdraw hockey. The NFL is a corporate entertainment juggernaut that is immensely popular in just about every city where the league has a franchise. And baseball is the most ingrained game in the American consciousness. Hence the reason I argued that the Flyers won&#039;t matter much until the NFL season is over. As for baseball in this town, it is red hot as of the past few years largely because of the success the Phillies have enjoyed.

Part of the reason that hockey is somewhat marginalized is the socioeconomic reason of the prohibitive cost of playing the game. Unlike basketball and soccer, hockey requires thousands of dollars for equipment and ice time, something that large portions of the population simply can&#039;t afford. In Canada, everyone is cold for most of the year so the growth of hockey in that country has been a natural thing. In the same way Floridians, Texans and Virginians don&#039;t have skiing as an important cultural undertaking, they don&#039;t have hockey. Hockey is a game that is regionally specific and despite the NHL&#039;s perhaps misguided efforts to universalize the game, the game is still enjoyed by millions of people. If you want to call that &quot;niche&quot; then fine but in no way does that mean it&#039;s an afterthought.

As for the point about the the blue collar nature of the game, there is a lot of truth to that. As someone who has played quite a bit of hockey locally, I can attest to the fact that it does have a big draw in areas like the Northeast, South Philly and New Jersey. Of course, these are only parts of Greater Philadelphia and there are plenty of areas where hockey isn&#039;t important. But that simply mirrors hockey&#039;s importance across North America. In Canada, Michigan, Minnesota, New York, New England and parts of the mid-Atlantic, hockey is quite big as evidenced by the consumption of the NHL as well as individual participation in the game. And there are plenty of affluent, white people who play and follow hockey--just look at the historical dominance of college hockey at the more prestigious (expensive) Northeastern and Midwestern universities.

So yes, hockey is not the biggest sport in North America. But by no means does that mean that &quot;nobody cares&quot; about it. Quite the opposite is true, both in Philadelphia and other major parts of the Northeastern U.S. I don&#039;t care much to get into the hockey vs. basketball debate because at the end of the day, it&#039;s simply a matter of individual preference. Although the concentrated following the Flyers enjoy may or may not be a function of some rabidized subculture, I guarantee that fan support is something the Sixers would love to have.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I mentioned earlier, there&#8217;s nobody who would disagree with the idea that football and baseball outdraw hockey. The NFL is a corporate entertainment juggernaut that is immensely popular in just about every city where the league has a franchise. And baseball is the most ingrained game in the American consciousness. Hence the reason I argued that the Flyers won&#8217;t matter much until the NFL season is over. As for baseball in this town, it is red hot as of the past few years largely because of the success the Phillies have enjoyed.</p>
<p>Part of the reason that hockey is somewhat marginalized is the socioeconomic reason of the prohibitive cost of playing the game. Unlike basketball and soccer, hockey requires thousands of dollars for equipment and ice time, something that large portions of the population simply can&#8217;t afford. In Canada, everyone is cold for most of the year so the growth of hockey in that country has been a natural thing. In the same way Floridians, Texans and Virginians don&#8217;t have skiing as an important cultural undertaking, they don&#8217;t have hockey. Hockey is a game that is regionally specific and despite the NHL&#8217;s perhaps misguided efforts to universalize the game, the game is still enjoyed by millions of people. If you want to call that &#8220;niche&#8221; then fine but in no way does that mean it&#8217;s an afterthought.</p>
<p>As for the point about the the blue collar nature of the game, there is a lot of truth to that. As someone who has played quite a bit of hockey locally, I can attest to the fact that it does have a big draw in areas like the Northeast, South Philly and New Jersey. Of course, these are only parts of Greater Philadelphia and there are plenty of areas where hockey isn&#8217;t important. But that simply mirrors hockey&#8217;s importance across North America. In Canada, Michigan, Minnesota, New York, New England and parts of the mid-Atlantic, hockey is quite big as evidenced by the consumption of the NHL as well as individual participation in the game. And there are plenty of affluent, white people who play and follow hockey&#8211;just look at the historical dominance of college hockey at the more prestigious (expensive) Northeastern and Midwestern universities.</p>
<p>So yes, hockey is not the biggest sport in North America. But by no means does that mean that &#8220;nobody cares&#8221; about it. Quite the opposite is true, both in Philadelphia and other major parts of the Northeastern U.S. I don&#8217;t care much to get into the hockey vs. basketball debate because at the end of the day, it&#8217;s simply a matter of individual preference. Although the concentrated following the Flyers enjoy may or may not be a function of some rabidized subculture, I guarantee that fan support is something the Sixers would love to have.</p>
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		<title>By: PalestraJon</title>
		<link>http://isportacus.com/2009/12/08/how-bad-are-the-flyers-right-now/comment-page-1/#comment-2264</link>
		<dc:creator>PalestraJon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 18:19:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://isportacus.com/?p=4292#comment-2264</guid>
		<description>Yeah, it is really true.  Let&#039;s go with some relevant facts, as the percentage of capacity merely shows that there are enough fans to fill the building.  It says nothing about the overall following, especially as the vast majority of Flyers ticket sales are season tickets.  Let&#039;s start with the proposition that right now, the NBA SUCKS.  It has few stars, the majority of big-city franchises are stuck in NBA salary cap hell and have been mediocre or worse for years and frankly, the product is terrible.  Yet, as shown in the stats below, the Flyers are one of 3 hockey franchises that out-draw their respective NBA neighbors on TV, the true measuring stick...mostly by a wide margin.  Only where there is a good NHL franchise in an established NHL town and the NBA team is bad is it even close.
http://puckthemedia.wordpress.com/2009/01/28/hockey-only-beating-hoops-on-tv-in-three-markets/

Before you crow about the Flyers vis-a-vis the Sixers, just remember that the Flyers 2.4 rating equates to about 42,000 viewers per Flyers game.  In a metropolitan area of 5 million, that is a small following.  Baseball and Football ratings far dwarf the NBA, so that shows where hockey really is---a niche sport with a truly devoted following, but much closer to soccer than anything big time.  It doesn&#039;t help that they have virtually zero fans in the black community and the fighting/wrestling nature of the NHL game have limited its support among (how do we say this kindly?) upper socioeconomic/post-college households.  

So hockey has a rabid following in Philadelphia among white blue collar households----which has become a smaller and smaller percentage of the overall population.  I really think even if you went to JGT quizzo nights (rather white population there), you would find few people who know more than 3 current Flyers.  Still, it is a niche sport.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, it is really true.  Let&#8217;s go with some relevant facts, as the percentage of capacity merely shows that there are enough fans to fill the building.  It says nothing about the overall following, especially as the vast majority of Flyers ticket sales are season tickets.  Let&#8217;s start with the proposition that right now, the NBA SUCKS.  It has few stars, the majority of big-city franchises are stuck in NBA salary cap hell and have been mediocre or worse for years and frankly, the product is terrible.  Yet, as shown in the stats below, the Flyers are one of 3 hockey franchises that out-draw their respective NBA neighbors on TV, the true measuring stick&#8230;mostly by a wide margin.  Only where there is a good NHL franchise in an established NHL town and the NBA team is bad is it even close.<br />
<a href="http://puckthemedia.wordpress.com/2009/01/28/hockey-only-beating-hoops-on-tv-in-three-markets/" rel="nofollow">http://puckthemedia.wordpress.com/2009/01/28/hockey-only-beating-hoops-on-tv-in-three-markets/</a></p>
<p>Before you crow about the Flyers vis-a-vis the Sixers, just remember that the Flyers 2.4 rating equates to about 42,000 viewers per Flyers game.  In a metropolitan area of 5 million, that is a small following.  Baseball and Football ratings far dwarf the NBA, so that shows where hockey really is&#8212;a niche sport with a truly devoted following, but much closer to soccer than anything big time.  It doesn&#8217;t help that they have virtually zero fans in the black community and the fighting/wrestling nature of the NHL game have limited its support among (how do we say this kindly?) upper socioeconomic/post-college households.  </p>
<p>So hockey has a rabid following in Philadelphia among white blue collar households&#8212;-which has become a smaller and smaller percentage of the overall population.  I really think even if you went to JGT quizzo nights (rather white population there), you would find few people who know more than 3 current Flyers.  Still, it is a niche sport.</p>
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		<title>By: BMT</title>
		<link>http://isportacus.com/2009/12/08/how-bad-are-the-flyers-right-now/comment-page-1/#comment-2260</link>
		<dc:creator>BMT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 17:14:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://isportacus.com/?p=4292#comment-2260</guid>
		<description>Yeah, that&#039;s really not true at all. Insofar as people in this town won&#039;t care as much as they will when the football season is over, the level of Flyers excitement right now is relatively low (see the pre-Iverson Sixers as well). But the Flyers attendance is 3rd third highest in the NHL, averaging 99.3% capacity. I challenge anyone to argue how that statistic indicates that nobody cares.

I&#039;ve said it myself, that the people aren&#039;t into the Flyers right now. Part of that has to do with the fact that it&#039;s early in the season. Another part has to do with the fact they&#039;re slumping but to anyone who knows anything about Philadelphia sports, the real reason is that the Flyers&#039; first half of the NHL season will always play second fiddle to the Eagles. From the moment the Eagles start training camp, they&#039;re the talk of the town (the past few Phillies&#039; seasons excepted). Once late January comes and the Sixers are 11-33, the focus will be on the Flyers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, that&#8217;s really not true at all. Insofar as people in this town won&#8217;t care as much as they will when the football season is over, the level of Flyers excitement right now is relatively low (see the pre-Iverson Sixers as well). But the Flyers attendance is 3rd third highest in the NHL, averaging 99.3% capacity. I challenge anyone to argue how that statistic indicates that nobody cares.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve said it myself, that the people aren&#8217;t into the Flyers right now. Part of that has to do with the fact that it&#8217;s early in the season. Another part has to do with the fact they&#8217;re slumping but to anyone who knows anything about Philadelphia sports, the real reason is that the Flyers&#8217; first half of the NHL season will always play second fiddle to the Eagles. From the moment the Eagles start training camp, they&#8217;re the talk of the town (the past few Phillies&#8217; seasons excepted). Once late January comes and the Sixers are 11-33, the focus will be on the Flyers.</p>
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		<title>By: PalestraJon</title>
		<link>http://isportacus.com/2009/12/08/how-bad-are-the-flyers-right-now/comment-page-1/#comment-2254</link>
		<dc:creator>PalestraJon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 03:48:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://isportacus.com/?p=4292#comment-2254</guid>
		<description>The 20,000 people who care about hockey in Philadelphia are up in arms.  No one else cares.  Nor can most of the other 1,480,000 name more than 1 or 2 current Flyers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The 20,000 people who care about hockey in Philadelphia are up in arms.  No one else cares.  Nor can most of the other 1,480,000 name more than 1 or 2 current Flyers.</p>
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